Re: WIN32 compilation, the spirit of GNU software.

[Hans Breuer <hans breuer org>]

At 16:40 22.08.02 -0400, Tim Ellis wrote:
>> >I would encourage you to do whatever work you can to make the plain
>> >vanilla CVS compile for both Unix and Win32 without one-off tweaks.
>>
>> To me this sounds like pure ignorgance. There is a _native_ win32
>> port of Dia since (dia/ChangeLog) :
>
>It is pure ignorance. I've never compiled or even begun to see what it
>takes to compile the Win32 version of Dia. I'm deferring to the experts on
>this subject.
>
>>From the discussion, I can only guess that "./configure ; make ; make
>install" doesn't work. 
Yupp. And automake and friends don't support (maybe can't) support the
win32 paform that well. That's where cygwin and bash are required _or_
the usage of the toolchain which I assume any serious win32 devleoper
already knows and has. Micro$oft vc. I choose the latter way.

>If Sr. DuPont can make that work, then I guess I'd
>be happier,
me too. But I seriously doubt it will happen.

> regardless of whether I agree with his (or your?) political
>stance on things. I would want "./configure ; make ; make install" to
>work, because technically, that's what I understand, that's what I think
>is a Good Thing, and that's what makes me smile at night.
>
>I don't understand the GTK Win32 port, I don't understand Microsoft build
>systems. I understand Unix, automake, X, and gcc.
>
>So I'm ignorant. This is fine. I won't complain, especially if I can
>build/run Dia the same as I build/run Apache, PostgreSQL, OpenSSH, or
>whatever else I get a wild notion to build and run.
>
All of the programs you list did no have any graphical user interface,
do they ?

>> But feel free to go right ahead to require an *ix emulation
>> and also an X server to get a restricted version of Dia
>> to run on win32. Only a real moron may also want to let wine 
>> run on top of the X server running on top of cygwin ...
>
>Personally, I don't mind requiring *ix emulation and an X server. Cygwin
>gives us both those things pretty transparently... Am I missing something?
- What about interfacing printers through the platform service
  (on win32 this is GDI).
- Text exchange via clipboard, drag and drop, ...
- Using the standard window manager, instead of requiring an X server
  which is either expensive or of limited functionality or both.
- Using platform filenames e.g. d:\graph\dia instead some 'interesting'
  emulation /D/graph/dia if I recall correctly
- Dynamic install path resoution instead of hardcoding them as common
  on *ix
- Much less Megabyte to install and less programs to configure.
- ...

>Is there some Win32 platform on which Cygwin/X doesn't work?
>
win 9x (at least there where some serious restrictions). Ok these
are almost platfrom restrictions which in some places hurt native
gtk as well ...

>In what fashion would Dia be restricted? I've run it from a Linux box
>displaying on X running under Cygwin and it appears identical to when it
>displays on X running under Linux... Why would the fact that the Dia
>executable itself is compiled under Win32 change this?
>
It would not, but what's the benefit to compile it under win32
if you already have access to a *ix platform?

>Where does wine fit in here? Why would I need wine to either compile or
>run Dia in Win32??? Why would I ever even attempt to compile or run wine
>in a Win32 environment at all? 
That are exactly the same questions which I asked myself when reading
Sr. DuPont's mail on same subject. 

>I would hope I could just run Win32 code natively in a Win32 environment.
>
>> BTW: one of the FAQs about the gtk win32 port is it it's 
>> integration with cygwin. It simply has none because gtk+ is 
>> ported natively and nowadays glib includes most of the bits 
>> to make it a real cross platform tookit.
>
>I am aware that GTK has a Win32 port. I don't see how it helps Sr. DuPont
>in his current predicament. 
I don't see that anyone/anything can help him, that's my trouble ...

>Perhaps I'm speaking from ignorance again,
>because I'm just saying what I think I know from reading between the
>lines, but he's trying to take a plain vanilla Dia CVS snapshot and a
>plain vanilla Cygwin install, and then to do a "./configure ; make ; make
>install" and have it work.
>
>At what point does that cease to make sense?
>
It depends. If you want the Dia port not only as alibi but as real
acceptabe alternative for your coworkers somewhere between
cygwin and th X Server.

If one wants to concentrate on functionality of the toolkit and the
application and not on the toolchain, i.e. for me this is somewhere
between bash and configure ...

	Hans

-------- Hans "at" Breuer "dot" Org -----------
Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to 
get along without it.                -- Dilbert