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The following archive was created by hippie-mail 7.98617-22 on Fri Aug 21 1998 - 17:20:46 ADT
Kriston J. Rehberg (kriston@ibm.net)
Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:29:05 -0400
Hi, I had asked a followup message that didn't appear to be posted,
either.
I am curious as to what the patent numbers are for those IBM patents on
the "weird" modes of DES so we can find them on www.patents.ibm.com. I
poked around and was hoping to find out which patents you are referring
to.
Thanks,
Kris
Bob Baldwin wrote:
>
> First, let me repeat (since my message seems to have
> been lost in the brief crash of the Listserver) my comment
> on RSADSI's posture on AES:
>
> |>On Mon 7/20/98 12:13 PM, Bob Baldwin wrote:
> |>My understanding of RSADSI's intent is that
> |>if RC6 is selected as the AES, then any use of it
> |>will be OK without payment to RSADSI.
>
> Second, let me make it clear that specific matters of
> RSA's intellectual property claims are handled by RSA's
> General Counsel. I'm in RSA Engineering.
>
> I don't mind offering non-legal opinions (and I'm
> relatively well informed as to what technology is available
> from RSADSI and elsewhere,) but I'm obviously not in a
> position to argue the scope of the RC5 patent claims.
> I'll leave that to experts on the List and elsewhere.
> I'm also not in any position to declare RSA's RC6 sales
> and licensing policy, if indeed one is yet available.
> Sorry, Kent. I'm sure RSA's sales guys are willing to
> talk to anyone, or respond to email to > talk to anyone, or respond to email to sales@rsa.com.
>
> Third, in another message apparently dropped by the
> Listserver, I responded to Perry's claim that:
>
> >>DES has been routinely used in weird new modes, and IBM never
> >>attempted to enforce the patent on it under any
> >>circumstances. They
> >>accepted that DES was no longer something
> >>they should expect to profit
> >>from.
>
> I pointed out that IBM has (and does) enforce its patents for
> digest functions based on DES (as well as, and in addition to,
> any other block cipher) called MDC-2 and MDC-4. It also has a
> patent on using DES to create a 40-bit keyspace version called
> CDMF. Both of these "weird new modes" for DES are patented and
> IBM does in fact enforce them. Perry is right that they do not
> seem to enforce the DES patent rights against non-FIPs uses of DES,
> but they do have other related patents, which they do enforce.
> My point is that engineers need to be careful about assuming
> too much when they hear that one specific patent is invalid,
> exipred or not enforced.
>
> My comments on what I understand to be the context for patent
> claims around a government crypto standard (as defined by
> IBM and NIST in the context of DES) are based on concrete
> examples like those above. This is not speculation.
>
> For my part, in my comments to NIST, I have urged that
> the new AES be defined in to broadest possible way, so as to
> encompass the greatest possible array of implementation modes.
> Specifically, I have encouraged NIST to define PRNG, Digest
> and key derivation modes that an implementor can use for free.
>
> Fourth, let me withdraw my playful (;-) comment about
> RSA-bashing. Open and free discussion of all AES candidates
> and the corporations behind them and all ramifications of the
> AES choice is necessary and useful, indeed vital. In this,
> I agree completely with John Kelsey's comment:
>
> >I think it's important to raise them now, and get them
> >answered in public before an AES candidate is selected as
> >the new standard.
>
> I'm not, however, going to get into a pissing contest
> with Perry or anyone else with regard to RSA's intellectual
> property claims. At least here in RSA Engineering, we realize
> that (a) because RSA was among the pioneers in establishing
> both intellectual property claims and defacto standards in
> cryptography, and (b) because RSA learned to street-fight to
> survive the long years during which the US Govt. sought our
> demise, people like me must expect to receive an extra ration
> of guff when we venture onto the Net. That is fine with me.
> The benfits of participating are worth the occasional fire.
>
> --Bob Baldwin
> Technical Director, RSA Data Security
-- Kriston J. Rehberg http://kriston.net/ AOL: Kriston endeavor to persevere
The following archive was created by hippie-mail 7.98617-22 on Fri Aug 21 1998 - 17:20:46 ADT