fwd: Re: RC5/6 patents

Lewis McCarthy (lmccarth@cs.umass.edu)
Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:50:20 -0400

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This didn't go out to CodherPlunks earlier because the list was
hosed for a few hours. So I'm *forwarding* it now.

------------ begin forwarded message -----------------
 
 Subject: Re: RC5/6 patents
 Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:16:31 -0500
 From: Bruce Schneier <schneier@counterpane.com>
 To: perry@piermont.com, Bob Baldwin <baldwin@rsa.com>
 CC: CodherPlunks@toad.com
 References: <Your message of "Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:04:36 PDT." <6236E58EC451D1119E80006097040ED95F599A@LOBESTER>
 
 It is important that we save statements like this to submit to
 NIST. A patent-free algorithm is important in the AES
 selection process, and if RSADSI reserves the right to
 patent non-FIPS modes of their AES submission, than this
 is something to make public in the selection process.
 
 Actually, it's nice of Bob to tell us this instead of hiding it.
 
 Bruce
 
 At 02:45 PM 7/20/98 -0400, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
>
>Bob Baldwin writes:
>> Similarly, if the RC6 cipher is used in modes that are
>> not covered by the FIPS, then implementations of those
>> modes could be subject to patent enforcement. For example,
>> if the modes do not cover building a digest function out
>> of AES, then the winner will does not need to give up rights
>> to AES as the basis for a digest function.
>
>Great.
>
>Just when I thought I could trust RSA DSI, you use weasel words in
>this context to make us all feel as though, as interesting as RC6 may
>be, we dare not make it the AES.
>
>> These ground rules are basically the same ones that
>> were applied to IBM's DES submission, so if you are
>> comfortable (from a legal viewpoint, not a security
>> viewpoint) using DES, then you should be comfortable
>> (legally) using the AES winner.
>
>DES has been routinely used in weird new modes, and IBM never
>attempted to enforce the patent on it under any circumstances. They
>accepted that DES was no longer something they should expect to profit
>from. Here, however, I think you are making it clear that RSA DSI will
>probably make the users of the AES miserable if the deviate in the
>slightest from the FIPS. Thanks, but no thanks. I think we'd rather
>just sleep well at night. The only way now I'd be able to support the
>use of RC6 as the AES would be if RSA DSI agreed to dedicate the
>patent to the public domain if it won, which I'm sure you'll never do.
>
>Perry
>
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