Re: save file format

[Cyrille Chepelov <cyrille chepelov org>]

Le Wed, Nov 19, 2003, à 10:07:22AM +0000, Alan Horkan a écrit:

> > > I personally think the compression default is good. We could make it
> > > clear to the user by displaying in the "save" dialog something like:
> > > "dia (gzipped xml) format".
> >
> > Honestly, I don't know why anyone would be confused:
> 
> I hope you are joking and your not just an old school Unix user with a
> superiority complex but there are far too many people who are so I cant
> asusme you are joking.
> 
> I'm familiar with the utility file, but then I'm familiar with apropos
> (and I can pronounce it) which is a utility that few seem to have heard
> of.

I, like JKL, assume that one willing to program for *nix would be
willing to learn the basic utilities as well. file(1) is one of them.
I sure wouldn't demand that someone who chooses to stick to existing GUI
applications learns file(1), but on the other hand if you're going to
muck with the contents of a dia file, you're going to see XML and gzip,
and if learning file(1) is too much to ask, then XML is probably too
complicated as well.

> There are more and more Linux users who have not learnt the command line
> utilities and to be fair if I had not picked up a few books and had good
> people to tell me these commands existed I would never have discoverd them
> accidentally.
> 
> > $ file Diagram1.dia
> > Diagram1.dia: gzip compressed data, from Unix
> >
> > $ mv Diagram1.dia Diagram1.dia.gz; gunzip Diagram1.dia; file Diagram1.dia
> > Diagram1.dia: XML document text
> 
> I work with users to whom the command line interface is baffling and
> scary.  You must admit that knowing gunzip instead of gzip is a bit
> obscure.

If the command line is baffling, so is XML, and so is programming (or
XSLT). For someone who just wants to load and save files, not write
converters, this whole discussion is moot.


Besides, the whole issue of dia's file format has been handled here:
  http://www.lysator.liu.se/~alla/dia/faq.html#DiaFileFormat
also, many of the hits here are directly relevant:
  http://www.google.fr/search?q=dia+file+format&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=fr&btnG=Recherche+Google&meta=

He who does not read FAQs and stubbornly refuses to learn essential
software facilities shouldn't expect to be able to program as quickly as
he who reads FAQ and knows his utilities. What a surprise!

> Being forced to use the command line is a failure of Desktop enviroment.
> A desktop enviroment should (eventually) provide a point and click way to
> do just about anything).

bzzzzt!! wrong. This, for one, is a reason why Apple has shipped
AppleScript for ages, and why they did include the Terminal app in OSX.

> > I don't know if so-called file managers have file(1) intelligence built
> 
> some do.

which resolves the discussion. Does Nautilus lack this? You know where
to file.

> And finally, we are unlikely to change the default from being compressed
> anytime soon.  Dia has been using .dia for compressed and uncompressed
> files for so long already that we cannot simplify the code and assume
> anything based on the file extension will always need to check a .dia file
> to see if it is compressed or not, so it is best not to worry about it.

another compelling reason is the sheer size of uncompressed XML. 

	-- Cyrille
	
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